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To Dance in the Belly of the Crucible
A blog about a coworker who engaged in me in debate and lost I might add. You know all this stuff, but for entertainment's sake, please by all means read on and feel free to provide a comment.
Roger Steed who is a jovial happy go lucky guy took advantage of the fact that no flights were going out to hit me up to talk religion. I was more interested in talking to some of my female coworkers, but as Lucas a good friend of mine was listening, I decided to take him on. I love an audience
Again this is told from memory as I do not have a tape recorder, but I will be about as honest and objective as I can be, which is not very much as I am gloating here.
Roger asked me if I believed in miracles knowing full well that I don't. My thought was, "Fuck, Roger leave me alone."
"Well do you?"
"Define a miracle." I say
"Well that is up to interpretation." He begins "My idea of a miracle is not necessarily yours."
"Okay, I will define it then since you are playing games, a miracle is when the physical world acts in a way that is contrary to the way in which is normally acts, and does so to an extend that no explaination can be summoned and my answer is no, I do not believe in miracles."
"I have seen a few. Do you want to hear?"
"No"
"There was this dude with Brain cancer...."
Oh God here is comes
"The doctors said he had less than a week to live..."
Less than a week! Does he make it! I'll bet he does
"My preacher prayed over him and the next morning he was fine and there was no trace of the Cancer. He lived happily for two month and died with no trace of Cancer."
I am beginning to believe in my own prophetic abilities, predicting the end of miracle stories that is. Him dying though was a bit of a twist, miracle stories rarely end with deaths.
"Okay Roger, First of all this is not a miracle. Who was the doctor that said he had a week to live? He died eventually, perhaps the week to live thing was a mistake and it was actually two months. Why is it you put faith a doctors diagnoses, but not in her ability to cure, you leave that to God. Why is that thousands upon thousands of faithful men and women die of horrendous flesh eating viruses all the time, what was so special about this man?" I go on and on
"If you want to see a miracle, you have to go where miracles are, you wont see one in a bar."
I personally have seen miracles in a bar. Tha fat loud redneck went home with the hot chick.
"Roger, you did not respond to my challenge questions, you really just ignored them."
"I don't need to prove anything."
"Do you want me to believe you?"
"I don't care."
What the fuck?
"Then why did you tell me this miracle story?"
"Oh, I thought you would want to hear."
"I think you do want me to believe or you would not have said or you want to debate the miracle. I am going to debate it since you bring it up. Sometimes weird things happen, you roll ten dice and all or snake eyes, this does not mean it is a miracle. Things just happen. What it is, is a desire to believe which causes you to witness what you believe to be miracles. You want a miracle, so you see one. You did not question the doctor's original diagnosis, you did not see the autopsy report after the man died, you did not the catscan of the man's brain after he is said to have been cured of the cancer. You did not see these things because you did not want to see them, you wanted to believe it was a miracle."
"You wont know until you experience one yourself."
"Well if you want me to believe you, you need evidence plain and simple."
"Do you have evidence that I am speaking to you now?"
"Yes, Lucas here also hears you and you are on videotape."
"No, you don't have evidence, you just know it and that is how it is when God speaks."
"Um I just said I have evi...."
"When I speak to you, it is no different than if God speaks to you."
"Yes it is."
"No it is not, you have no proof, but you just know."
"Roger this is a false analogy, when humans speak to other humans it shows up on recordings, video tapes, multiple witnesses observe the act, it happens everyday, I see you talking, Lucas sees you talking, none of this is case with God talking, this is a false analogy. When the likihood of something being true reaches a 98 to 99 percent likelihood threshold, it is safe to assume that it is true and is happening. "
This is no longer only about miracles.
"If no one believed in God, without religion, mankind would go mad."
Mad with joy.
"Mankind would have no repercussions for his actions."
"There is that whole court of law thing."
"That is not a deterrent."
"Fewer percentages of Atheists are in prison than their Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, and Jewish counterparts, we can safely say that belief or disbelief has little no effect on obedience to social norms and laws."
"I want to see those statistics."
"Do your own homework."
"I will"
"What has science done?"
I was getting up to go, but he just did not want me to leave."
I sigh "Longer life expectancies, electricity, global communication, polio vaccine, internet..."
"What about nuclear bombs?"
"Nuclear bombs are not in of themselves evil things. It is their use against innocents that is evil."
"Yeah, but science gave them to us."
"Yeah, you're right." I say "and I can argue that Nukes have actually saved lives, but I am not, what I am going to say is that science is not a moral system, it is only a system from which knowledge is obtained. What we do with that knowledge is what can be good or bad."
"We need a moral compass then, like religon."
"Well religion has caused more bloodshed then anything else and I don't think that our moral compass should be based on religion, something that is based on nothing but opinions."
"How can science make us moral?"
"Science attempts no such thing, but morality may very well be a side effect of scientific thinking. Science gives a grasp on reality, so that our beliefs are based on reality. When our beliefs are based on illusion or out right untruth, we do stupid hurtful things."
"Like what?"
"Seriously Roger?"
"Yeah what?"
"I believe that I am of a superior race and that jews are not worthy of life, I do not believe this based on any sort of scientific research, I believe this based on well faith. I act in accordance to my beliefs."
Okay I am tired of this, I won the debate and at one point I had everyone laughing who listening in because I was really revealing how absurd some of this was. If I can get them to laugh, I believe that I am showing them there is something to this whole disbelief thing.
Anyway Kudos goodnight.
2:49 AM
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